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Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2012.05.05 17:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Mining ships. It makes no sense, from any fluffy perspective that ships continuously ganked never develops and becomes able to counter that thread. Few times in history have people insisted on being so ******** as to continue doing the same mistake over and over. No place in Eve has ever been safe enough for any ship design as paper thin as an exhumer to be designed in the first place! Obviously. This is why fishing trawlers today are able to stand up to a naval destroyer, and why cruise ships are impervious to pirate attacks. EVE should work like real life, where oil tankers can either out run warships and submarines or simply rely on their superior hull armor to withstand their bombardment/missile/torpedo attacks until help arrives. Anything else is just silly. Bingo...
The real adaptation to a situation like hi-sec ganking would be other ships / technology that could offer active defense (as opposed to after-the-fact defense). I proposed such under the Aegis destroyers thread in the Assembly Hall (see sig). But the most positive responses I've managed to get are "this seems like a good idea, but I'm not going to support it yet." Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Mining ships. It makes no sense, from any fluffy perspective that ships continuously ganked never develops and becomes able to counter that thread. Few times in history have people insisted on being so ******** as to continue doing the same mistake over and over. No place in Eve has ever been safe enough for any ship design as paper thin as an exhumer to be designed in the first place! Obviously. This is why fishing trawlers today are able to stand up to a naval destroyer, and why cruise ships are impervious to pirate attacks. EVE should work like real life, where oil tankers can either out run warships and submarines or simply rely on their superior hull armor to withstand their bombardment/missile/torpedo attacks until help arrives. Anything else is just silly. Bingo... The real adaptation to a situation like hi-sec ganking would be other ships / technology that could offer active defense (as opposed to after-the-fact defense). I proposed such under the Aegis destroyers thread in the Assembly Hall (see sig). But the most positive responses I've managed to get are "this seems like a good idea, but I'm not going to support it yet." Maybe I'm wrong but my sarcasm meter was through the roof on this post, to which you appear to have responded seriously. Either this is dry Brit humor, or idiocy. I don't even I was agreeing with Ranger1's sarcasm. It would be silly to alter the mining vessel. It's tuned to its job. It would make more sense to have a way to protect the mining vessel without expecting it to go solo. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:The real adaptation to a situation like hi-sec ganking would be other ships / technology that could offer active defense (as opposed to after-the-fact defense). I proposed such under the Aegis destroyers thread in the Assembly Hall (see sig). But the most positive responses I've managed to get are "this seems like a good idea, but I'm not going to support it yet." Actually a "remote shield extender" would be interesting." For sure, our logistics ships would be more easily able to deny the enemy killmails. It would also help reduce the whole "alpha" problem since you can also increase a buffer. Absolutely. A remote shield extender with a cool down (75% on, 25% off per cycle for example) would mix things up a bit. I also thought it'd be cool to have a role for a new kind of destroyer, cheap, reduces damage, acts like a remote hardener almost. Personally, I'd like to see both of these things make it into the game. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:Also a designers flaw. You do realize how very little isk / hour mining generates compared to about anything else right? I could make more trading in jita with no skills. But a hulk pilot with 19 million in mining skills will still make less. People don't fly a hulk to get the results of a retriever. And you might say they trade off to have more tank. Yet both the retriever and the hulk usually die under the same circumstances so why tank it?
Long story short, fix mining, increase the mineral cost for modules + ships, or make a T2 variant of a ship worth fitting with a tank. Combat wise there are titans that don't work as well as others, carriers, etc. People choose not to use them but at least they have options to use something better. Mining is the only career where you have so little choice.
And honestly would it hurt to have two variations of the hulk? One with strictly mining / cargo hold bonuses, another with buffer / tanking bonuses. It makes sense in the high sec / null sec idea everyone pushes. Right, CCP could do things like removing drone poo and... CCP has actually made mining more valuable in Inferno. Prices have already started to increase. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Actually a "remote shield extender" would be interesting. Hmm. Sure. And how many of those can you have in a fleet?
Quote:Note: The Fleet bonus only works if you are the assigned fleet booster. In talking about a mining vessel, yes, probably only one as the fleet booster would be enough. But wouldn't you want mining vessels to be boosted by an Orca or mining links? There should be a way to protect others without being in the fleet, and without having to play clean up afterward (reps, shield transfer). Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.05.05 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:And how many of those can you have in a fleet? All in all? 31. Of course, only three at a time can affect any one ship. Right.
I suppose my idea is aimed toward lower-skilled players, cheap ships, and directed defense (targeting the friendly). This mechanism would work external to fleet mechanics. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My own insane proposal is: allow miner capitals to be used in hisec. Imagine a Dread firing 8 strip miners at 8 asteroids at once... a weapon of asteroidal mass destruction! Alas there is only one Veldnaught. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:Tippia wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:And how many of those can you have in a fleet? All in all? 31. Of course, only three at a time can affect any one ship. Right. I suppose my idea is aimed toward lower-skilled players, cheap ships, and directed defense (targeting the friendly). This mechanism would work external to fleet mechanics. You know who would end up crying because of such a mechanic? Not us. LOL. Does this mean I can get 10K likes on the Aegis destroyers thread? Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Valerie Tessel wrote:I suppose my idea is aimed toward lower-skilled players, cheap ships, and directed defense (targeting the friendly). This mechanism would work external to fleet mechanics. The problem is that it would immediately be co-opted by those higher-skilled (and larger-numbered) fleets and would have to be balanced with those in mind, making it about as effective as the current crop of command and logistics ships. Agreed, which is why I have a few posts on how to counter and scale the effectiveness of such a ship or module. I'd much appreciate it if you can poke holes in the notion on that thread. It would help refine the idea if it really is worthwhile.
I do like stoicfaux's idea of deputation. *checks to see if character name Barney Fife is taken* Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
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